I am computer programmer by my profession, though i do not work anymore in this field. However, i would classify myself as an advance computer user for sure. It happens also that i like new Win8. I always strove to use mouse as little as possible, and have been using various software to have everything available though keyboard (not to mention countless programs replacing standard MS operations). I do not even use icons on desktop. As such, i love Win8' speed, and also i find it very unjust to compare it to WinME and vista, which both were simply either not working or working terribly slow. Win8 is stable, so it is a different story. What i have thought so far, is that it is middle-use users who would not like Win8 - due to the fact, that they are used to traditional interface (and did not yet move past behind it). Power users, as i humbly qualify myself, would not care much about metro, which is easy to live without, but would appreciate greatly speed and performance of a system. 

Of course.

I'll be the first to suggest the Kernel [of 8] may be fine and dandy.....and even an advance on 7, but the issue still remains that MOST users of an OS do so by 'whatever' GUI is provided for it.

Wincustomize.com is ALL/PURELY/SIMPLY about modifying [improving] on the MS GUI so what qualifies whether an OS is rubbish or not tends to revolve around its GUI and what can be done with it.

It's totally meaningless [here on this site] whether or not some quaint shortcuts and/or command-line interface can compensate for a shell's shortcomings....simply because it is the latter that defines an OS's success/potential on a site specifically devoted to its CUSTOMIZING.

Outside of the egos and chest-beating of pro and con Win 8 users the fact remains  more people are NOW turning to third party alterations to the default GUI in an attempt to FIX the mess MS has provided its customers.

Yes, texting-while-they-drive, me-generation children may want cross-product GUI conformity because they cannot learn more than one interface, but why should PC users be the ones to lose out?  Is it really a last-ditch grab at the phone/pad market to lock NEW CUSTOMERS into only one system so as to monopolize on their IT understanding/experience?

Probably.

Jafo:

following your line of reasoning, if it is really by GUI that system is judged, and the fact that the very next generation likes this kind of GUI, perhaps the Win8 will pass into history as groundbreaking and revolutionary MS system  

Second, i thought we are talking on Elemental-website, did not know elemental is about win-modifications.

Third, paradoxically, Win8 made me buy the only software from Stardock i am actually using, namely Start8  

Nope...  Win 8's GUI is simply something designed for an inferior product [a phone] ham-stringing the superior computing product - the PC.

Second... Stardock's forums are cross-linked to most of their sites [depending on category] ...this one crosses all so people can be posting from anywhere within the Stardock 'universe'...and a major compnent of SD's involvement is GUI modding.

Third, yes....welcome to [one of] the saviours of PC users' sanity ....

You know we can debate this until we all are blue in the face. In the end nothing we say will change someone else's opinion.

Jafo there are some things you need to consider. In a few years Windows 7 will be obsolete. In another few years after that Microsoft will drop support for Windows 7. You will be forced to upgrade. Windows 9 and Windows 10 will continue to look like Windows 8, except they will probably lock people into a Microsoft app market. The days of the old Start menu are gone.

So complain all you like. Either upgrade or get left behind.

As for Stardock not having a version of Windowblinds for Windows 8 I am sure they are working on it. It will be out in due time probably. I will also venture to say that Microsoft may come out with it's own theme engine and charge people through the app store for new themes. Maybe Windowblinds gets the boot, who knows?

I still think that was a mistake along with not using a vBullentin based forum setup.

A fair bunch of people are still using XP [just like you]....long after it was made obsolete by a genuine improvement of an OS.  MS cannot 'force' me to upgrade. The best they can do is 'entice' and so far their 'toothless hag' is no siren....

People are only still using XP because Microsoft is still supporting XP. After support is killed off people will move up to Windows 7 or Windows 8.

Microsoft can't force you to upgrade, that's true. But you will have to due to your work and your job here.

And I will not be using XP for too much longer.

kona, as a computer support tech, I HAVE to support what the customer has, and atleast ONE of my customers is STILL using windows 98(not even osr2 but the FIRST win98)(I have shown the customer each of the later windows flvours, but they do not like the later ones along with the fact that they would need to replace a computer that still works well enough for them) and yes even the antivirus writers have dropped 98, and the customer is on the net mostly for email.

regarding those that claim many years of using  computer = skilled/knowledgeable computer user, I have been employed FIXING computers for twenty years and using for 33 years(including writing programs at various levels IE highlevel languages and even assembler/binary), and yet I only call myself a semi-skilled computer tech,

and as far as using  computers I would rate myself as a power but frustrated user,

and the most time I spend with computers is in the GUI, so the GUI MUST support what I want to do OR it is faulty as I find the window HATE(8) interface to be as it tries to prevent me from doing what I want/need to do

harpo

Again, no.  My 'work' only requires net access, email and a word processor.  Any Win can do that sufficiently.  My 'job' here is only bettered by a knowledge/use of current SD products...and currently that includes 8.  But it's not required.

Note.... I may be here full-time but I also have a full-time Architecture practise ...and THERE I have successfully avoided the total use of anything Autodesk.  In computing terms I am still using a slide-rule.

Too many current Architects are utterly dependent on CAD and have not a creative thought/expression of their own.  Their output is graphically dead and lifeless as is their Architecture.

Harpo...back in the days I was using 98 I was beta testing an AV which likely could hold its own resonably well still.  Dunno if the proggy is still in the wild....InDefense ...

Well use what you like I guess. I still say roll with the pack or get left behind.

jafo, thanks  I am currently googleing the brand/company, but all the links I have tried so far time out or do not have any software on them.

harpo

It's possibly 'abandonware' by now....it was 1998 ....

I still have it...but it'll be reg'd to me.  Perhaps I should load it in an old 98 system and see if it still keeps nasties out...

There was a later release called 'Maildefense' and another whose name I forget....something like 'vaccine' or similar.

Belay that....nothing like.... it was called 'Achilles' ....in 2000.  Then I think it was sold off....while Norton was only just starting to screw up machines right and left....

http://archive.org/details/tucows_195397_Achilles_Shield 

Managed to track it down.

It's heuristic so doen't need AV signatures...