keep your friends close but your enemies closer
Published on February 7, 2011 By Anthony R In War on Terror

I've come to believe that Bush's policy of Democratization in the Middle East is a farce and a lost cause. It began to unravel when I saw the Iraqis time and time again standing on the smoldering ruins of American machinery and lives screaming allah akbar and it came to a grand finale, in a political sense, when Hamas. a terrorist organization, was democratically elected in the Gaza strip. Add to that woeful outcome the election in Lebanon of Hezbollah, a terrorist organization responsible for the Marine barrack bombing in Beirut and countless other bloody attacks on Americans and Israelis spanning the last 3 decades. Now, as we watch revolution in Egypt I can only hope the dictator Mubarak holds onto power and keeps the Egyptian people from electing the Muslim Brotherhood. Arabs and Persians will vote for the most repugnant, anti West regime imaginable. Time to wrap our troops and bring em home. Secure our borders, drill wherever oil might be, create a crash program to convert all residential and commercial property to natural gas heat, and deny all Visas to anyone from the Middle East, including those who try sneaking through France, Britain, and Germany.    


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 09, 2011

[/quote]

Jefferson invented the light bulb?

Sorry, my bad. I meant Edison. LOL. I goofed there a bit.

on Feb 09, 2011

CharlesCS

Jefferson invented the light bulb?
Sorry, my bad. I meant Edison. LOL. I goofed there a bit. [/quote]

Tis ok.  It was worth the chuckle.

on Feb 09, 2011

I do stuff like that all the time Charles....usually when I'm thinking of two things at once...

on Feb 09, 2011

At least I had the right people in mind.

on Feb 09, 2011

 

Please cite examples of American Imperialism. And do not use words unless you understand their meaning.

 

Seems we have disagreement on “Conspiracy Theories” here. I am sure it is just a matter of degree. But, if one is disposed to believe the expressed views of the Government and thus the mud-Stream Media, then a few assumptions are necessary. If one were blind, they would more or less have to believe that our worldly benevolent Government was populated by crusaders for the American People who were interested in forcing gifting whomever with the blessings of our conception of Democracy. They would have to believe that the President and ranking members of Congress were upstanding and honest citizens that would never stand before them and actually lie to their face (no pun intended). That the most corrupt entity in the US could not possibly be their own Government … then they could ask such a question … but if one were not blind … Let’s take this to one of my posts, ok?

 

 

 

on Feb 09, 2011

Now, as we watch revolution in Egypt....... and keeps the Egyptian people from electing the Muslim Brotherhood. Arabs and Persians will vote for the most repugnant, anti West regime imaginable.

Thank you for the article.

I think the revolution in Egypt is waking us up to the threat of  Islamification.  

 

Anthony writes:

I've come to believe that Bush's policy of Democratization in the Middle East is a farce and a lost cause.

Daiwa

You have to consider what substantial cultural shifts need to occur, and how slowly they happen, in order for what we call democracy to take root and flourish.

Look how long it took us to arrive at our Constitution after securing our independence,

Just a small point but America is truly unique becasue it is a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy and there is a big difference between the two.

A Democracy is rule by majority which ends up never working. Democracy exist until a majority of the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From the moment on the majoriity always votes ofr the candidates promisijng the most benefits from the public treasury. The result is democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship.

 

 

 

 

on Feb 09, 2011

Technical foul.

Constitutional Republic = 'what we call democracy'

 

on Feb 09, 2011

daiwa

Constitutional Republic = 'what we call democracy'

Ha, ha, ha I know. I saw that! The word democracy has been used here over and over. I made the distinction because a) you were the first ot comment and so I could address what the others are saying.

BoobzTwo

Truth be told, you cannot force democracy on a people that has not ever experienced it

DRG.

Tell that to Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Franklin, Adams, Hancock, etc.

It's interesting because the Founders understood well the meaning and concept of a Democracy and a Republic.

Of Democracy Madison said, "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security , or the rights of property; and have in general been as short intheir lives as they have been violent in their deaths....A republic, by whihc I mean a government in which the scheme of representatiojn takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking."

Hamilton said: "It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false then this. The ncient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."

"We are a Republican Government. Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy."

Sam Adams warned: "Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itslef. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide."

......................................................

DRG.  

Egypt is not a result of Bush's policies, but of Obama's incompetence.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Obama is weak in foreign policy and a Socialist and the world knows it.

 

on Feb 09, 2011

By Anthony R on February 7, 2011 8:39:35 PM from JoeUser Forums

I've come to believe that Bush's policy of Democratization in the Middle East is a farce and a lost cause. It began to unravel when I saw the Iraqis time and time again standing on the smoldering ruins of American machinery and lives screaming allah akbar and it came to a grand finale, in a political sense, when Hamas. a terrorist organization, was democratically elected in the Gaza strip.

 While I'm quoting world thinkers on history, I found this from Thomas Macauly,

"I have long been convinced that institutions purely democratic must sooner or later destroy liberty or civilizations , or both."

and this from Ludwig Leweisohn, "Democracy which began by liberating men politically, has developed adangeroustendency to enslave him through the tyranny of majorities and the deadly power of their opinions."

And one of my favorites, G.K. Chesterton, " You can never have a revolution in order to establish a democracy. You must have a democracy in order to have revolution."

and Alexis De Tocqueville warned, "If ever the free institutions of AMerica are destroyed, that  event will arise from the unlimited tyrany of the majority. "

on Feb 09, 2011

The Egyptians are not your typical Arabs as they do have a lot more history and culture to bring to the table. That does not mean it is enough, but at least it is more than most of the Middle East has (and for he record, Iran had it too).

This is true about Egypt having history and culture and how that plays out remains to be seen. It's not over until it's over.

 

Tova

I don't believe the rowdy .9%-1% of the mostly male demonstrators in the street represent the other 99% of the countries population.

Right. What do they want? Freedom? ANd if so are they going to be willing to fight for it should push come to shove?

 

on Feb 09, 2011

Seems we have disagreement on “Conspiracy Theories” here. I am sure it is just a matter of degree. But, if one is disposed to believe the expressed views of the Government and thus the mud-Stream Media, then a few assumptions are necessary. If one were blind, they would more or less have to believe that our worldly benevolent Government was populated by crusaders for the American People who were interested in forcing gifting whomever with the blessings of our conception of Democracy. They would have to believe that the President and ranking members of Congress were upstanding and honest citizens that would never stand before them and actually lie to their face (no pun intended). That the most corrupt entity in the US could not possibly be their own Government … then they could ask such a question … but if one were not blind … Let’s take this to one of my posts, ok?

LOL, you must be a politician. Using big words, long explanations and "dam he sounds intelligent" sentences to confuse people but in the end you never actually tackled the request you quoted. I give you points for a good attempt but take them away for thinking like a politician who depends on the average Americans ignorance not to see how you never really answered the request.

on Feb 10, 2011

BoobzTwo
 

Please cite examples of American Imperialism. And do not use words unless you understand their meaning.

 

Seems we have disagreement on “Conspiracy Theories” here. I am sure it is just a matter of degree. But, if one is disposed to believe the expressed views of the Government and thus the mud-Stream Media, then a few assumptions are necessary. If one were blind, they would more or less have to believe that our worldly benevolent Government was populated by crusaders for the American People who were interested in forcing gifting whomever with the blessings of our conception of Democracy. They would have to believe that the President and ranking members of Congress were upstanding and honest citizens that would never stand before them and actually lie to their face (no pun intended). That the most corrupt entity in the US could not possibly be their own Government … then they could ask such a question … but if one were not blind … Let’s take this to one of my posts, ok?

A lot of words that did not answer the challenge.  Again, cite the examples of American Imperialism.  I care not one whit for the government or trust it as far as I can throw it.  But that is immaterial to the question at hand,

on Feb 10, 2011

CharlesCS

LOL, you must be a politician. Using big words, long explanations and "dam he sounds intelligent" sentences to confuse people but in the end you never actually tackled the request you quoted. I give you points for a good attempt but take them away for thinking like a politician who depends on the average Americans ignorance not to see how you never really answered the request.

Oops!  Should have read all replies before responding!

What Charles said^

on Feb 10, 2011

LOL, you must be a politician. Using big words, long explanations and "dam he sounds intelligent" sentences to confuse people but in the end you never actually tackled the request you quoted. I give you points for a good attempt but take them away for thinking like a politician who depends on the average Americans ignorance not to see how you never really answered the request.

Sorry there, I will try to use less syllables vowels for ease of understanding.

American = American (USA)

Imperialism = Expansionism expanding a country's economy or territory increasing its control = Empire-building getting more power for your organization, without caring about whether this is good for the organization or the people = Colonialism a policy in which a country rules other nations and develops trade for its own benefit = Interventionism political interference or military involvement by one country in the affairs of another = Domination control that is anything but voluntary.

 

… Let’s take this to one of my posts, ok?

I would point out the last line of my post. You see, we are supposed to be talking about Egypt here which is not the venue place to discuss the corruption bad stuff the U.S. and ALL governments are complicit involved in illegal bad endeavors things …  and because it is much to encompassing big to discuss piecemeal on someone else’s blog.

Again, I apologize for the use of the big words but as you pointed out, it does confuse those who are clueless and argumentative. If you have to rely on personal attacks to make a point, please make them elsewhere. You do not know the first thing about me but that didn’t stop you did it.

You might note also that my comment was directed at someone I KNOW has the ability and the knowledge to make valid arguments and is intelligent enough to understand big words and proper venues for discussions.

Lastly, I despise most politicians as an unnecessary evil, if for no other reason that they do not mean what they tell us and do not act on their professed convictions … its business as usual as usual. If you really want to peruse this ridiculousness with me (yuck), you will have to tackle one of my articles as I am done here having said what I think (a crime?).

PS. I do not have anything swinging between my legs ... I would have thought that 'BoobzTwo' would give it away, but I guess that was one of those hard to understand.

on Feb 10, 2011

Oops! Should have read all replies before responding! What Charles said^

 ... guess I was a little premature on my thoughts that you understood where we were chatting and what we were supposed to be discussing? If my last post is insufficient, then so be it. You are more than capable of supplying many specifics on your own. This is not the article for these discussions and you know it.

I suppose we could discuss some of the dictators around the world who thrived under the auspices of the US Government. We could discuss the Jackals and many other Government hit men who cheat countries around the world of Trillions. We could discuss Panama or Venezuela or North (or south) Korea or Vietnam or Iraq or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or the whole continent of Africa etc. ... but not here on someone else’s dime.

 

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