keep your friends close but your enemies closer
Published on February 7, 2011 By Anthony R In War on Terror

I've come to believe that Bush's policy of Democratization in the Middle East is a farce and a lost cause. It began to unravel when I saw the Iraqis time and time again standing on the smoldering ruins of American machinery and lives screaming allah akbar and it came to a grand finale, in a political sense, when Hamas. a terrorist organization, was democratically elected in the Gaza strip. Add to that woeful outcome the election in Lebanon of Hezbollah, a terrorist organization responsible for the Marine barrack bombing in Beirut and countless other bloody attacks on Americans and Israelis spanning the last 3 decades. Now, as we watch revolution in Egypt I can only hope the dictator Mubarak holds onto power and keeps the Egyptian people from electing the Muslim Brotherhood. Arabs and Persians will vote for the most repugnant, anti West regime imaginable. Time to wrap our troops and bring em home. Secure our borders, drill wherever oil might be, create a crash program to convert all residential and commercial property to natural gas heat, and deny all Visas to anyone from the Middle East, including those who try sneaking through France, Britain, and Germany.    


Comments (Page 3)
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on Feb 10, 2011

That snarky nice reply hardly certainly confirms your evasiveness wisdom - not.

on Feb 10, 2011

BoobzTwo
... guess I was a little premature on my thoughts that you understood where we were chatting and what we were supposed to be discussing? If my last post is insufficient, then so be it. You are more than capable of supplying many specifics on your own. This is not the article for these discussions and you know it.

You still have not answered the question. it was raised here, and should be addressed here.  The OP does not seem to mind the tangents the comments take, and until HE does object, I see no reason to move it to another venue.

And I did not make the claim of imperialism. So I have to find out your examples before I can agree or disagree.  Your continued reluctance to show them (anyone can go to dictionary dot com and pull up the definition of imperialism, that was not what was asked) indicates perhaps you over reached with your denunciation of America.  We all make mistakes,. Charles made a beaut on who invented the light bulb.  Unlike you, he was quick to admit it and we all had a good chuckle over it.

on Feb 10, 2011

That snarky nice reply hardly certainly confirms your evasiveness wisdom - not.

All I did was make my words simpler as you expressed some trouble with big words. What you did was change all the meanings .. and that makes you wise some how? 

 

10Dr Guyon Feb 08, 2011As I see it, what is transpiring in Egypt is a direct result of American Imperialism Please cite examples of American Imperialism. And do not use words unless you understand their meaning.

What a mess I find myself in … was it something I said. All I was trying to do was agree with TonyR, guess that was a mistake huh. It was Dr. Guy who started this mess with all but the best of intentions with his comment   “Please cite examples of American Imperialism.  And do not use words unless you understand their meaning.”    I am sorry but was there something constructive here? The rest of the very same partial sentence you quoted give you one example of what I thought on the subject    “As I see it, what is transpiring in Egypt is a direct result of American Imperialism as we have a nasty history of backing dictators around the world … “   Later I was getting tired so I posted this in case it was the definition part of your request that was bothering you.  

American = American (USA)

Imperialism: = (Expansionism) expanding a country's economy or territory increasing its control = (Empire-building) getting more power for your organization, without caring about whether this is good for the organization or the people = (Colonialism) a policy in which a country rules other nations and develops trade for its own benefit = (Interventionism) political interference or military involvement by one country in the affairs of another = (Domination) control that is anything but voluntary.

Did not seem to be the solution so … Next I tried to tell you this was not where I wanted to be and I asked you to come to my blog where we could devote the time to go into “conspiracy theory” and whatnot … not good enough it seems. Then you come up with this winner   “A lot of words that did not answer the challenge.  Again, cite the examples of American Imperialism.  I care not one whit for the government or trust it as far as I can throw it.  But that is immaterial to the question at hand,”   Is that what this is all about your idea of a challenge, would help if you let me in on it. The question at hand concerned India and I endeavored to keep it there. I did not know there was a list to cite?

In a later post In frustration I wrote  “I suppose we could discuss some of the dictators around the world who thrived under the auspices of the US Government. We could discuss the Jackals and many other Government hit men who cheat countries around the world of Trillions. We could discuss Panama or Venezuela or North (or south) Korea or Vietnam or Iraq or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or the whole continent of Africa etc. ... but not here on someone else’s dime.  

At this point, I do not have a clue as to what you want out of me.  And after it is all done and over with, you make another post   “You still have not answered the question. it was raised here, and should be addressed here.  The OP does not seem to mind the tangents the comments take, and until HE does object, I see no reason to move it to another venue. Seemingly you do not … But I do  and I have repeatedly tried to impress this point on everyone. You see as much as you want to force the issue … I have the other half of the say and as you seemingly have not read or do not understand any of the previous statements I have already made, I have no reason to think that you will start believe anything more I have to say on the subject. What's the point?

And I did not make the claim of imperialism. So I have to find out your examples before I can agree or disagree.  Your continued reluctance to show them (anyone can go to dictionary dot com and pull up the definition of imperialism, that was not what was asked) indicates perhaps you over reached with your denunciation of America.  We all make mistakes,. Charles made a beaut on who invented the light bulb.  Unlike you, he was quick to admit it and we all had a good chuckle over it

You did make the statement and the only reluctance I showed was my failure to write a thesis on the subject for your picking. You are a pompous old fart Dr. as I have NEVER EVER said anything about The denunciation of America (WHICH was YOUR MISGUIDED ASSUMPTION) I have and repeatedly will continue to fight against our faulty Government (dominated with the virtues of a rock and abounding with the joys of agony) and you would share this malevolence with the world around us, how nice. When I am wrong I will readily admit it, but I will be damned if I will sit here and allow you to try and make a mockery out of me and all because you were too stupid to ask me what I meant and you assumed wrong.  Especially since I have been trying to comply with what I continue to view as stupidity. This could have been so easily avoided in you had presented your real grievance in the beginning … instead of the END!

And then all the moon bats started in just to add their two bits, oh how fun 

on Feb 10, 2011

All I did was make my words simpler as you expressed some trouble with big words. What you did was change all the meanings .. and that makes you wise some how?

Gee, thanks for the help, but I think you have me confused with someone (who gives a shit).  Good luck to you.  You're gonna need it.

Oh, and BTW, there'll be no need to blacklist me.

on Feb 11, 2011

Good grief. It seems kind of ridiculous to get into a debate over the definition of imperialism. When I hear that word, the first thing that pops into my mind is the Empire of Japan. I guess cause they attacked Pearl Harbor and left such a lasting impression, but I guess any Empire would be "imperialist" That is of course, unless you spend long hours listening to NPR, European intelligentsia, or Islamic extremists who are somehow convinced that the US doesn't have a constitution where men have rights given by a creator rather than an Emperor.

on Feb 11, 2011

Imperialism: = (Expansionism)

Well - you finally got that right.  But Imperialism is not hegemony.  Imperialism is the confiscation or subjugation of lands.  Your use of the term shows a decided lack of understanding between the two.  Exerting influence without conquering is not imperialism, and you were wrong to use the term.  I did not ask you to use simpler words - I advised you not to use words you did not understand. and you clearly did not understand what you were saying when you stated that America is imperialistic.

Words have meanings, and if you are to be taken seriously, you have to use them correctly. Any ignorant buffoon can throw around pejorative terms for the sake of shock value, but like the mouth piece of a politician, they are not to be taken seriously.  If you want to be taken seriously, use the correct terms, and not terms meant to inflame or incite the audience for flame sake.  Clearly America is not imperialistic.  It is not perfect, but accuse it of its real sins, not made up ones.

 

on Feb 11, 2011

Anthony R
Good grief. It seems kind of ridiculous to get into a debate over the definition of imperialism. When I hear that word, the first thing that pops into my mind is the Empire of Japan. I guess cause they attacked Pearl Harbor and left such a lasting impression, but I guess any Empire would be "imperialist" That is of course, unless you spend long hours listening to NPR, European intelligentsia, or Islamic extremists who are somehow convinced that the US doesn't have a constitution where men have rights given by a creator rather than an Emperor.

Interesting!  I first think of Rome, then Great Britain.  Japan is far down the list, but no less a good example.

on Feb 11, 2011

Interesting! I first think of Rome, then Great Britain. Japan is far down the list, but no less a good example.

I think Darth Vader.

on Feb 11, 2011


Interesting! I first think of Rome, then Great Britain. Japan is far down the list, but no less a good example.


I think Darth Vader.

lol

on Feb 11, 2011

I think Darth Vader.

 

Yes, that is the best example yet !

on Feb 11, 2011

My goodness peace, how nice for a change

Doc, guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I will try one last time. If you come to something I have written and decide for yourself to attach a specific meaning when there are normally many choices, how is that my fault? I had no problem understanding what I meant or what I intended but I have no control over your inability to simply ask for clarification instead of starting some pointless brouhaha. Do you remember how many poste were made before you actually told me what we were talking about … and all of this because YOU decided to be contrary instead of inquisitive.  I still do not know how you equated American Imperialism to the denunciation of America. I cannot find the correlation and I cannot answer something I have to be inside YOUR mind to know. How is this my fault?

Words do have meanings, usually many of them and so does the interpretation. If you cannot show me a dictionary with one definition per word, I refuse to allow you or anyone to pick my definitions for me. A.S.S.U.M.E. also has meaning and is the most devious of all the meanings.

on Feb 13, 2011

As I see it, what is transpiring in Egypt is a direct result of American Imperialism as we have a nasty history of backing dictators around the world

Keeping peace with foreign countries is not "imperialism".

What would you have said if the US had refused to deal with Egypt under Mubarak? Anti-Arab racism? The US hates "brown people".

Mubarak was not the US' satrap. He was an Arab dictator fully supported by the Arab League who came to power as one in a series of dictators that originally came to power in a revolution against the King of Egypt.

The US had nothing to do with Mubarak being in power, the US merely supported Egypt to keep the peace. Mubarak was the legitime ruler of Egypt and the person to deal with.

Elections in Iraq were the direct result of American "imperialism". And democracy in Iraq appears to be working.

on Feb 14, 2011

BoobzTwo
My goodness peace, how nice for a change

Doc, guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I will try one last time. If you come to something I have written and decide for yourself to attach a specific meaning when there are normally many choices, how is that my fault? I had no problem understanding what I meant or what I intended but I have no control over your inability to simply ask for clarification instead of starting some pointless brouhaha. Do you remember how many poste were made before you actually told me what we were talking about … and all of this because YOU decided to be contrary instead of inquisitive.  I still do not know how you equated American Imperialism to the denunciation of America. I cannot find the correlation and I cannot answer something I have to be inside YOUR mind to know. How is this my fault?

Words do have meanings, usually many of them and so does the interpretation. If you cannot show me a dictionary with one definition per word, I refuse to allow you or anyone to pick my definitions for me. A.S.S.U.M.E. also has meaning and is the most devious of all the meanings.

As I stated at the beginning, words have meanings.  You want to assign your own meaning to words that have different meanings.  While the freedom of speech allows such actions, the freedom of listening and the art of understanding precludes an intelligent discourse if you are going to make up meanings to commonly used words.  That is your problem, not mine.

I asked several times for examples of American Imperialism,  You bobbed and weaved and did everything in your power to NOT give any as you knew you had been caught in a talking point, one that I think you clearly knew was wrong, but pride forced you to try to weasel out of your predicament.

You can continue your defenseless defense of your erroneous statement to your hearts content. But the only one buying your definition and obfuscation of the facts is you.

on Feb 14, 2011

Leauki

Keeping peace with foreign countries is not "imperialism".

What would you have said if the US had refused to deal with Egypt under Mubarak? Anti-Arab racism? The US hates "brown people".

Mubarak was not the US' satrap. He was an Arab dictator fully supported by the Arab League who came to power as one in a series of dictators that originally came to power in a revolution against the King of Egypt.

The US had nothing to do with Mubarak being in power, the US merely supported Egypt to keep the peace. Mubarak was the legitime ruler of Egypt and the person to deal with.

Elections in Iraq were the direct result of American "imperialism". And democracy in Iraq appears to be working.

Excellent points all.  And as you noted, the imperialism was in quotation marks, as that is of course what the ignorant maintain, but the definition defies their myopia.

And you also touched on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality of those who simply hate America for being America.  If we topple dictators - we are imperialistic warmongers.  If we let them alone, we are then propping up the dictators.

During the cold war, virtually the entire Arab League was on the other side of the fence (friends with the old USSR).  yet you would be hard pressed to find any America Hater that will admit that fact.

on Feb 14, 2011

I can think of several examples of American imperialism but all of them were in the late 19th century.

 

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